New member needs advice from the AC experts. :)

[tourmax]

Well here in the US we still have R12 on the shelf. 134a will be in inventory for a LONG time.

This is not canuckistan, where the eco weenies always get their way. I can still buy R500 if I want it.

I have no idea where “canuckistan” is, I do know where CANADA Is. Lets leave the childish name calling to the politicians shall we? They seem to be good enough at it for all of us....

You might still be able to buy r12, but its time is limited. Very limited. Read your usa “clean air act” and you’ll see that production is banned. Cfc’s by 2015, hfc’s by 2030:

“In addition, EPA must ensure that Class I chemicals be phased out on a schedule similar to that specified in the Montreal Protocol -- CFCs, halons, and carbon tetrachloride by 2000; methyl chloroform by 2002 -- but with more stringent interim reductions. Class II chemicals (HCFCs) will be phased out by 2030. Regulations for Class I chemicals will be required within 10 months, and Class II chemical regulations will be required by December 31,1999.”

https://www.epa.gov/clean-air-act-overv ... y-title-vi

Only countries still producing it are the “asian outsiders”, who don’t comply with any international agreements. Even if they do sign on to them. Bad actors all around...

So while you may still be able to buy it, the supply tou have is all you have. Once gone, its gone.

The biggest problem with cfc was in aerosols. Might get away with having them longer in a seal automotive system.

But, I’ve got no interest in digging into usa legislation any further. Means nothing to me.

As to “eco-weenies”, whatever. I may not like our environmental laws, but I do understand why we have them. USA can do whatever they wish with regards to laws and the environment, not my row to hoe...

[Cusser]

You might still be able to buy r12, but its time is limited. Very limited. Read your usa “clean air act” and you’ll see that production is banned. Cfc’s by 2015, hfc’s by 2030

Production is/will be banned, but there is still more than enough to go around. There's actually plenty of R-12, as few older vehicles st

Right now some home HVAC companies are trying to scare folks into replacing perfectly good home AC units because R-22 is no longer manufactured. But I'd guess over 95% of the R-22 gets recovered and recycled, those units don't leak as often as auto systems, and lack of R-22 will not cause any units to be removed from service.

[bohica2xo]

Cusser:

The uninformed simply have no idea of the scale of the refrigerant business. Refrigerant is mostly recycled - well except for driveway pirate mechanics that vent it.

The number of tons of R12 manufactured before the ban is huge. MVAC was a tiny corner of the consumption. Medical Inhalers used more of the stuff.

134a is used on a massive scale as well. I recovered a chiller back in 2019 for replacement. The recovered charge was 2,220 pounds of 134a One chiller. A production machine, that the manufacturer had a part number for. They likely made hundreds of them, perhaps thousands.

I am still recovering R500 from residential cooling units. R500 left the new machinery marketplace a long time ago. I SELL the recovered material to a recycler. As long as there is profit potential in the material there will be recycling.

I replaced the two 5 ton R22 units on my roof a year ago. Recycled the R22 of course. The 410A units that replaced them have HUGE condensers. The operational savings come from the inverter drives on the compressor and fans. But the "efficiency" resulted in a nice rebate.

[Cusser]

Cusser:

The uninformed simply have no idea of the scale of the refrigerant business. Refrigerant is mostly recycled - well except for driveway pirate mechanics that vent it.

My experience - which is small - is that automotive shops will credit one for the amount of refrigerant (either R-12 or R134a) that is in your system. For example: if your system contains 18 oz. and the shop pulls that out to do a repair, and the system requires 32 oz. refrigerant, then you only pay for 14 oz. refrigerant.

But HVAC (for example, for a home unit repair such as condenser or compressor replacement) will pull out the refrigerant yet will charge you for the total amount of refrigerant the system requires, apparently "pocketing" what the existing refrigerant will sell for to the next customer. Is that true or common?

[Dougflas]

<<But HVAC (for example, for a home unit repair such as condenser or compressor replacement) will pull out the refrigerant yet will charge you for the total amount of refrigerant the system requires, apparently "pocketing" what the existing refrigerant will sell for to the next customer. Is that true or common?>>

They are not pocketing the refrigerant. A home type AC unit's refrigerant also contains oil that is not separated as is MVAC. This refrigerant and oil is usually burnt rendering it non reusable. If someone replaces a compressor, new refrigerant, drier, sometimes contactor and start components are also replaced. The condenser coil is also cleaned. If a leak in the condensing unit is repaired, the refrigerant is recovered to a point; extra new refrigerant is added to the system. We usually leave a small amount in the system because we do not want to recover refrigerant that also contains atmosphere sucked in by the recovery machine thru the leak.

[bohica2xo]

Cusser:

HVAC has it's own set of circumstances, as Douglas has pointed out. When you recover a system that has a burnt up compressor - you get a full charge, but it is contaminated. Or you recover a leaky system for a repair, and get a few ounces.

The R500 systems around here are still running. When they went to demolish a group of old condos I got a lot of clean R500 out of the deal. The young whiz kids thought a decommissioning job was a loser. Those old units had a lot of copper in them.

When you recover scrap refrigerant with oils, acids and air in it, you get scrap prices for it. The recycling process is fractional distillation, and the recovered product that is resold is as good as virgin product.

That is not to say that some HVAC techs are all angels. Recharging a system with a slow leak in August - and getting $80 a pound for R22 has happened. Any time some outfit claims they can snake your drains, replace your water heater & fix your A/C... you should probably get a second bid.

[Cusser]

Thanks for explaining.

[TheGoldenCheetah]

Wanted to update my thread - I appreciate the advice and responses from everyone. I'm gonna give 'Tim' a call as recommended by bohica2xo to figure out what kind of compressor and condensor to buy. I also need to first talk to the shop that's gonna install the parts, I want to get some idea of what all will be involved. I'll update the thread as I get more info.

[TheGoldenCheetah]

Another update: I've found the shop that's gonna do the work, they maintain my wife's '15 X1 and we've been very happy with them and I found out they do complete AC work as well. They have a very professional operation. Next is to call site sponsor Tim's outfit to see what my options are. I'm firm on buying a new compressor unless they tell me they personally remanufacture the ones they sell. In any case I'll probably buy a kit of some sort from them, and then have everything installed very soon.
'

[TheGoldenCheetah]

Hello everyone (who took part in my thread), I'm back for another update. It's been a long time since I've posted, and my thread is now a necro thread I'm sure. Nonetheless I wanted to tell everyone here - and future searchers - how all this turned out. Spoiler alert: my car now has cold AC - yay!

Okay so 3 summers ago I finally found a shop to replace my '90 Miata's dead factory AC system. After a lot of research and talking back and forth, this shop - which specializes in hot rods and vintage to modern cars - located a new compressor for my car. I took the car to them in the first place because I figured working on older cars they would have no problem working on my old school R12 system. I wanted a shop used to older systems, not some chain shop that doesn't do much beyond recharging modern AC systems.

Anyway they did a fantastic job, they promised the AC would be very cold and it is! It's made the trips my wife and I often take in the car a real pleasure now here in hot as heck North Carolina. In fact today it was in the high 90's here, with sky high humidity. Absolutely brutal. Well we took the car for a long drive along the Blue Ridge Parkway, up steep mountain grades in the blazing heat and the car and AC system didn't skip a beat. Kept the cabin nice and cool and comfortable despite the high temps. Pretty amazing for a 35 year old car with over 200K miles on it.

Two more things I wanted to add: 1st, thank you to all who gave advice in my thread, that advice helped me decide what to do to get my system going. And 2nd, to make things even cooler in my car, I had the windshield and side windows tinted one week ago. I had the shop use the lightest tint available so the car looks stock. In other words it looks like the glass is NOT tinted at all. It looks factory but rejects around 70-80% of the heat outside. This makes the car's interior even cooler and I highly recommend it. So yeah I'll be sticking around this forums after all this because I have a bunch of other questions I want to ask, as well as learn more about cars' AC systems.

TLDR: I have AC!!!