Automotive Air Conditioning Information Forum

bohica2xo wrote: ↑Sun Aug 27, 2023 5:57 am Compressor speed calculations. Yes, just use the diametral ratios. Which takes us back to displacement. You rarely get a lot of options for drive ratios. The crankshaft pulley diameter is usually difficult to change. Most compressors don't like to spin over 6000 rpm for very long. The SD7H15's make maximum volume output at 4000. So depending on the engine speed range during normal operation, pulley size and displacement there is a lot of actual range in the true compressor output.

Ratio calculation is :

Drive pulley (crankshaft) / Driven pulley (AC compressor)

The Subaru crankshaft pulley is 133mm. Idle engine speed with AC on is 900RPM. Max engine speed is 5500 RPM after which the ECU cuts RPM down. Usual driving is 2000-3500 RPM. Typical cruising is 2800

Forecasting a 100mm AC pulley, ratio is 1.33

Engine RPM – 900 – 2000 – 2800 – 3000 – 3500 – 4500 - 5500
Compressor RPM - 1197 – 2660 – 3724 – 4655 – 5985 - 7315

Some of the pulleys were like 120mm so the ratios will about about 1.11

Engine RPM – 900 – 2000 – 2800 – 3000 – 3500 – 4500 - 5500
Compressor RPM - 999 – 2220 – 3108 – 3330 - 3885 – 4995 - 6105

Doesn’t look like speeds of the compressor limit of 6000 RPM are likely to be reached.

bohica2xo wrote: ↑Sun Aug 27, 2023 5:57 am 3 Inches of vertical space above the compressor kills one choice. The York / Tecumseh / TCCI compressor. Compact where your space is limited, but too tall to fit vertically.

Measured have 2-1/4 inches above Calsonic compressor. And have 8” from the engine to the engine lid.

The FS10 is shorter so there would be more than the 2-1/4” inches above depending on the final mounting height.

bohica2xo wrote: ↑Sun Aug 27, 2023 5:57 am Your space constraints mean you need a specific pattern of FS10. Some models have ports on one side, instead of the rear. This gives you a place to mount a manifold on "top" of the compressor with it installed on your engine with the mounting bolts horizontal. There are various manifolds available to direct the suction and discharge towards the passenger side of your engine, or the rear of the vehicle if you like.

I spent some time on the 4S site since I could search by FS10 and they have pictures and good details like pulley dia. And its good to know that ACKits.com can get pretty much anything.

There are several with connections on top left-right like the one you linked previously https://www.ackits.com/2005/ford-113583 ... clock-3651 including ones with 4-rib pulleys like the Four Seasons 68143
There is also just one version of where the connectors are forward/back the Four Seasons 178588 and it has the pulley closer to the compressor which may help alignment. The benefit of the forward/back connections is that it may allow for easier to have both pipes going to one side of the compressor. The left/right version above may have to overlap

bohica2xo wrote: ↑Sun Aug 27, 2023 5:57 am I see what looks like a speed sensor on your existing compressor. That may mean a little tweaking in the OEM PCM if you use the A/C signal from the PCM to run the compressor.

That is actually a temperature sensor which cuts off the clutch at a certain temperature.

bohica2xo wrote: ↑Sun Aug 27, 2023 5:57 am I can ask Tim to add a catalog listing for New quality FS10 with side ports if you are interested.

By “side” do you mean the top ones discussed above or are there ones with actual side ports which may actually help hose/pipe routing

bohica2xo wrote: ↑Sun Aug 27, 2023 5:57 am Various hose manifolds are available, some OEM, some aftermarket. The compressor remains the same. Some manifolds can be scavenged from the wrecking yard if that is something you are willing to do.

So I figured all the peanut connections were the same (likely an incorrect conclusion). The peanut ones I’m familiar with, since some of the OEM VW Vans had them, were like #8 and #10 O-ring pipes held down with like a H plate covering both pipe bulges and tightened with a bolt through the center of the H…..So if it’s not standard like that, please educate me on the Manifold search.

Thanks for the reply.

Follow up question - is the FS10 still the compressor to focus on or are there other high-volume options to look at?

Follow up question 2 - another donor I have is a 2004? Forester it has a Zexel 73110SA000 506021-6433. Any specs on that? If so, I wonder if the capacities are possible for that evaporator and if we can infer anything about the Calsonic from this Zexel.

Thanks

For reference these are the FS10 compressors i found on 4S (looking at pictures) with top connectors. There may be some I missed.
--Fittings front/rear (this is the only one I found like that)
Model/pulley dia/grooves
178588 100 6
--Fitting left-right
Model/pulley dia/grooves (sorted by dia)
58479 143 1
158120 142 6
68143 139 4
68143 139 4
67124 139 4
58154 133 4
57154 133 4
58152 130 8
57152 130 8
57152 130 8
58176 127 6
58167 127 6
58151 127 6
58145 127 6
58145 127 6
58118 127 4
57176 127 6
57167 127 6
57151 127 6
57145 127 6
57131 127 5
57118 127 4
57118 127 4
58129 116 6
58149 114 8
58123 114 7
57148 114 6
57129 114 6
57123 114 7
54149 114 8
54148 114 6

Try not to over analyze this by looking at every known compressor.

The FS10 is one of the few with enough volume to run a large evaporator like you want.

I have noticed over the years that 4 rib pulleys tent to be larger diameters. Many times this was because they were mounted on small displacement engines that either revved very high or were in smaller cars that did not need so much refrigerant flow. No real need to run a 4 rib pulley specifically, the 4 rib belt will stay in place just fine on a wider pulley.

Your speed calculations point at pulleys under 130mm for good low speed performance.

Whatever that 178588 thing is, it is not an FS10.

A common aftermarket manifold for the FS10 leaves two threaded fittings sticking straight up - a #8 and a #10 O ring fitting. Standard practice would be a pair of 90 degree fittings side by side. Preferably with R134a service ports mounted right on the fitting. No crossing over, just parallel lines .

A peanut fitting is a single port fitting with a teardrop shape. It is held down with one screw offset from the port. Like your OEM compressor. Not very interchangeable, most manufacturers use their own dimensions. Yeah we should probably call it a teardrop, but everyone calls them a peanut. Early ones had a peanut shape for the bolt boss.

Mid 1990's Ford vehicles had manifolds of every description. Many of them are steel, which has led to brazed or welded one off parts on hotrods. The 1993 crown vic and 1995 mustang both had tubes of some length attached to the manifolds as I recall.

Pic a compressor in fairly common use. Make sure the clutch connector is pointed in a reasonable direction. Yes, you want a small pulley and close to the compressor body to give you room to line up the belt without crowding the back end of the compressor.

As for the zexel compressor, data on those is hard to find. I have no information on them.

I don't have a performance curve for the FS10. If you are still considering a direct mount SD7h15 below is the curve for that compressor:

https://www.sanden.com/objects/ESD7H15_SES.xls.pdf

Ford F150 2002 to 2006. About as common as can be:

https://www.ackits.com/2002-858351615/f ... -port-3073

127mm pulley.

bohica2xo wrote: ↑Sun Aug 27, 2023 5:48 pm Whatever that 178588 thing is, it is not an FS10.

K I’ll find out. Says is specs to the models below. Pulled a sample for a 2003 Explorer on Rock auto the images are the same.

Ford Crown Victoria (05-03) Ford E-150 (07-02) Ford E-150 Club Wagon (05-03) Ford E-150 Econoline (07), (02) Ford E-150 Econoline Club Wagon (02) Ford E-250 (07-03) Ford E-250 Econoline (02) Ford E-350 Club Wagon (05-02) Ford E-350 Econoline (07) Ford E-350 Econoline Club Wagon (02) Ford E-350 Super Duty (07-02) Ford E-450 Econoline Super Duty (02) Ford E-450 Super Duty (07-03) Ford E-550 Econoline Super Duty (02) Ford E-550 Super Duty (03) Ford Econoline (06-02) Ford Expedition (06-02) Ford Explorer (05-02) Ford Grand Marquis (04-03) Lincoln Aviator (05-03) Lincoln Navigator (02) Lincoln Town Car (05-03) Mercury Grand Marquis (05-03) Mercury Marauder (04-03) Mercury Mountaineer (05-02)

bohica2xo wrote: ↑Sun Aug 27, 2023 5:48 pm A common aftermarket manifold for the FS10 leaves two threaded fittings sticking straight up - a #8 and a #10 O ring fitting. Standard practice would be a pair of 90 degree fittings side by side. Preferably with R134a service ports mounted right on the fitting. No crossing over, just parallel lines .

Thanks for the terminology. Found several straight ones which are about $50. Vintage air has an angled one #045018 for like $75 (which is like ½ the price of a compressor (crazy)....It would help with the engine deck clearance issue especially if ports are on the tubes and it would be really nice to have them there.

bohica2xo wrote: ↑Sun Aug 27, 2023 5:48 pm Pic a compressor in fairly common use. Make sure the clutch connector is pointed in a reasonable direction. Yes, you want a small pulley and close to the compressor body to give you room to line up the belt without crowding the back end of the compressor.

Well it seems like the FS10 is the one then.

bohica2xo wrote: ↑Sun Aug 27, 2023 5:48 pm I don't have a performance curve for the FS10. If you are still considering a direct mount SD7h15 below is the curve for that compressor:

Since the FS10 has larger displacement, it seems like the better fit unless there is additional reasoning I’m missing.

.... And another Thanks!

I would stay focused on the FS10

The dynamic chart shows the piston compressor relationship with RPM very well, so I posted it for you

That other compressor is a scroll Ford tried for a while I believe. They went back to pistons. 2 0r 3 years and that compressor was gone.

I try to always use a compressor fitting with a service port. Just makes it easier. Couple of 90's on that angle block will send the lines toward the body.

bohica2xo wrote: ↑Sun Aug 27, 2023 8:30 pm I would stay focused on the FS10

Ok.... And yes, I see the limited year range on that other compressor. With the angled block fitting cited above the typical FS10 will work very well.

bohica2xo wrote: ↑Sun Aug 27, 2023 8:30 pm The dynamic chart shows the piston compressor relationship with RPM very well, so I posted it for you

Where did you post it? I saw the chart from the Sanden chart but nothing for the FS10... Don't know enough yet what that Sanden chart means though.

And what is a "dynamic chart" and how would one interpret it? Might there be a resource where to learn about it? Googling that term there is one article from CascoUSA that talks about compressing air by speeding it up rather than squeezing it. The other articles take about microphones.

It's nice to be settled on a compressor model. Thank you for the guidance on that journey.

The chart shows the relationship between the rpm and output - as well as power consumption and the Coefficient of Performance.

As I said, I don't have the same chart for the Ford FS10, but piston compressors are similar in those relationships. As you spin the compressor faster you get more volume - but the efficiency falls off with speed and it heats the refrigerant more - the COP.

Edited to add:
I see it now. Predictive text and a late night. "Dynamic" was typed as "dyno' like dynamometer.