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Re: 1994 honda Civic complete AC system rebuild - questions about sp-10 capacity and how to add to system???
Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2022 1:22 pm
by tbirdtbird
Good to know, Tim.
OK, baby steps.
Look here for the beginning of charging info. Ignore comments by Mike and Briandl, they are hopelessly lost. The other guys are consultants and know what they are doing
https://autoacforum.com/messageview.cfm ... adid=21880
Another. Chick, Iceman, Bohica, Tim, and GM Tech are the heavy lifters.
You should be able to recognize the smart guys by now...
messageview.cfm?catid=2&threadid=16178
Re: 1994 honda Civic complete AC system rebuild - questions about sp-10 capacity and how to add to system???
Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2022 3:48 pm
by tbirdtbird
Re: 1994 honda Civic complete AC system rebuild - questions about sp-10 capacity and how to add to system???
Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2022 4:48 pm
by Fordmansk64
tbirdtbird wrote: ↑Thu Jun 16, 2022 11:14 am
OK, there is a lot of typing here to be done, so I am gonna take this in small bites.
1. This forum link discusses dye:
https://autoacforum.com/messageview.cfm ... adid=15165
2. SP10 is fully compatible with PAG46. They are the same, except SP10 is so-called DEC (double end capped) oil, which is a superior oil. However the small amount of dye charge you need will make no difference.
The parts stores all seem to sell Interdynamics products. My problem with them is that they put so-called ICE32 in everything they make. This is an entirely unnecessary additive, and I avoid it. The only things that are supposed to be inside an AC system are refrigerant, oil, and dye. Nothing else. In my opinion ICE32 is snake oil.
You can get PAG46 with dye online, and perhaps Tim (the forum owner) from this site also has it. He is always helpful by phone. He has more stuff than shows in his online catalogue.
3. We have 2 industry experts on this forum, Detroit AC, and GM tech, who will tell you that at the factory, all the oil needed for a system is already in the comp before it is installed in the car. Clearly the factory assembly line does not have time to fiddle-faddle various amounts of oil into each and every component. The only component that needs oil is the comp. True, some of that oil will begin circulating with the 134, but it all starts out in the comp. Some comps even have a sump. When I install a bone dry system, that is what I now do. JohnHere, who is an excellent technician (MACS certified) gave the oil and 134 charge specs above.
more later
Thanks Tbird, I really appreciate your help!
Based on what I'm reading I'll add 1/4 oz of pag46 with dye - nothing else except the refrigerant. I'll stay away from the ice32 stuff.
I'll add it by pulling a vacuum, give it a couple of minutes and then close the high side(HS} valve, disconnect the HS hose from the car, crack open the HS valve and then syringe 1/4 oz pag46 with dye into the HS hose. Then close the HS valve, reconnect the HS hose to the car and continue deep vacuum.
So if my compressor does in fact have 130 cc of sp10 in it already, that's a little over 4.5 oz. If I only add the 1/4 oz of pag46 w/dye, am I good or do I need to add another 1/4 oz of sp10? The dry capacity
Is supposed to be 5 oz.
Once I get the final answer on how much oil I need to add I'm good on everything else. The links you sent get me going plus I found several others that give me what I need. If you or your fellow gurus can verify a total of 5 oz of oil and that adding it in the beginning of the deep vacuum stage, I think I'll be good after that.
If I get stumped on anything else I won't be bashful about asking more questions!
Re: 1994 honda Civic complete AC system rebuild - questions about sp-10 capacity and how to add to system???
Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2022 5:05 pm
by tbirdtbird
JohnHere agrees 5 oz oil.
I would be sure it has 5 oz.
You are overthinking the dye charge.
If you have the dye charge as a small can which includes 134 to propel it in there, you add it into the system the same way you add the other 134 cans.
If you simply have the dye charged oil, while you can install it anywhere on the high side, I would simply add it to the drier before you start vacuuming.
Once you have done that, and are ready to vac, you just keep going with vac and charge, no need at all to be disconnecting your hoses once they are set up.
I would not add oil w/dye to the hoses, the oil likes to cling to the inside of the hose
I think you said you were going to drain the comp of oil and measure what comes out to be sure of the amount. That is what the pros here do, else anyone could have any amount in there. If the comp oil is already SP10, put it back in, it is a good oil.
And Tim says not worry about ICE32.
Are you going to leak check with a small amount of 134 and a sniffer? You said you were thinking about it
Re: 1994 honda Civic complete AC system rebuild - questions about sp-10 capacity and how to add to system???
Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2022 7:12 pm
by JohnHere
tbirdtbird wrote: ↑Thu Jun 16, 2022 8:34 am
The best you could hope for is by weighing the cans ahead of time (they don't all have a full 12oz in them) on perhaps a postage scale (I have not done this myself, so not sure how well it would work), and weigh after you have discharged the can.
I have done this with the small cans a time or two, but I usually charge from a 30-pound cylinder.
I use a precision refrigerant scale with a "tare" function, though, not a postal scale, which I'm not familiar with. If the OP's scale has a tare function, what I would do is connect the yellow hose to the can tap valve already on the small can, purge the yellow hose of air, place the already connected can assembly on the scale, and press the tare button to zero the display. Then proceed to charge the system.
If the scale is like mine, it will count down from zero and let you know how many ounces flowed from the can into the system, in negative numbers, until the can empties. Now write down the negative number on the display, connect a fresh can, and repeat the process until you've charged the system with the exact amount called for in the specs.
The process that tbirdtbird outlined sounds like it would work as well, although I haven't tried it.
Re: 1994 honda Civic complete AC system rebuild - questions about sp-10 capacity and how to add to system???
Posted: Sat Jun 18, 2022 6:48 pm
by tbirdtbird
John, you really made me think, having not seen a postage scale in decades. Wondered what they were like now.
Guess what, on line for about 22 bucks you can get an electronic one with a tare button!!!
Probably being used for more than postage....
Re: 1994 honda Civic complete AC system rebuild - questions about sp-10 capacity and how to add to system???
Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2022 7:50 am
by B52bombardier1
Hey Cusser,
Kentucky?? Really?? I'm also originally from Kentucky and just to let you know . . . my family members and I are wearing shoes almost every day now.
Rick
Re: 1994 honda Civic complete AC system rebuild - questions about sp-10 capacity and how to add to system???
Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2022 10:55 am
by JohnHere
tbirdtbird wrote: ↑Sat Jun 18, 2022 6:48 pm
John, you really made me think, having not seen a postage scale in decades. Wondered what they were like now.
Guess what, on line for about 22 bucks you can get an electronic one with a tare button!!!
After you mentioned it, I looked at some of the postal scales online. Most are produced in The Orient, are inexpensive but do have a tare button, and reportedly can be used for other weighing tasks. But some of the comments are critical, with users mentioning that either they don't work at all or react only after tapping on the platform or adding different combinations of weights. Seems hit or miss as to whether you get a good one. IMHO, I wouldn't trust one of those for refrigerant charging purposes.
On the other hand, my scale is purpose-built for the MVAC trade with a large platform to accommodate up to a 30-pound cylinder, has very fine resolution up to 220 pounds, is NIST calibrated, and ruggedly built for everyday shop use. It's made in the USA as well, and I'm glad I spent the money for it.
Mine doesn't have this feature, but you can program some MVAC scales to turn themselves off when they reach a precise charge amount so that a technician doesn't have to watch the display.
B52bombardier1 wrote: ↑Sun Jun 19, 2022 7:50 am
Hey Cusser, Kentucky?? Really?? I'm also originally from Kentucky and just to let you know . . . my family members and I are wearing shoes almost every day now. Rick
We wear shoes around here almost all the time, too
Re: 1994 honda Civic complete AC system rebuild - questions about sp-10 capacity and how to add to system???
Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2022 1:40 pm
by tbirdtbird
I agree, I would be lost without my pro charging scale.....
Some of these posters think they do not want to invest in so-called one time use tools....but to me, since they are DIY now, it may only be a matter of time before friends and family ask for help. The pro scale makes charging such a breeze....
