2017 Savana Not cold at idle

[Carguychris85]

Hard to find ones that specify size.
These were the best match I could find, one variable and one fixed.

ACDELCO 1550120 GM red variable orifice tube

MOTORCRAFT YG346 Ford Red Fixed 0.062" tube

What would be my best choice?

Four Seasons 38635 is what I have used many times. Put some PAG oil on the orings prior to install as the dual orings make it a bit tougher to slide into place. YG346 is probably the same exact tube as the Four Season product at a premium price. Only so many companies have factories that make AC parts, they are mostly all packaged and shipped from the same Chinese factories.

I have tried the variable in a few systems over the past 20 years or so. Generally they work OK for while then fail suddenly usually fully closed. I always went to the fixed design and typically have seen better cooling with the fixed design anyway. I tried 4 different tubes in my 97 van and several in my Tahoe. 0.062 has given me the best results. Working great in my single evaporator 1987 G20 van too.

[Carguychris85]

I will need to look harder for the high side fitting. Hopefully there is one hiding, maybe down near the compressor. I used a cheaper gauge set, that has been working for me for more than 5 years. My r-134a tank has less than 10lbs of refrigerant left in it, but should be enough to recharge the van. I can't verify the high pressures yet (haven't found the port yet), but the fan definitely appears to be varying due to the a/c pressures. Airflow can be felt pulling in even in front of the grill when it is engaged. It is an engine driven fan with a variable electronic clutch. If I get everything replaced and find the high pressures climbing too high at idle, I will likely add an electric fan in front of the condenser.

I also am looking into adding a high idle switch. I have added it to three of my other diesel trucks, and it works great, but I believe they changed to a pto control module in 2011 instead of running it directly from the ecm. I haven't found any information on it yet for the baby diesel in the van. The dealers around here don't have any clue how to work on the diesels past an oil change and replacing parts. They certainly haven't the first clue on upfitter options.

Pusher fan will help at idle regardless if the clutch fan is fully engaging or not. The GM 11" units have nice mounting brackets. I have a riviet nut tool to install rivet nuts into sheetmetal. I despise the little plastic zip ties that go through a condenser or radiator for mounting anything. As long as that diesel setup does not have a bunch of added coolers in front of the condenser, I would definitely add 2 of the 11" fans. The condenser needs all the airflow it can get stopped at idle. If the van is going to sit idling for a long period of time, should also pop the hood, throw the prop rod on it and leave the hood open to maximize the heat dissapation from the engine compartment. The pusher fans are about $60 each from RockAuto or Amazon buying a decent brand and move a good chunk of airflow.

The high idle should be a fairly big improvement even 1,000-1,150 rpm makes a big difference vs low idle in cooling fan CFM and compressor BTU output.

[Carguychris85]

I am assuming this is a raised roof van to be having this much difficulty keeping it cool in such modest ambient temos. If the system is still not adequate, research and find out if a company offers a refer unit setup or 2nd compressor setup for a school bus or shuttle bus application for that engine. It is not generally horribly expensive or difficult to mount an overhead bus rear evaporator in a raised roof van above the back doors with its own compressor and remote mounted condenser. Buses fit the added condenser outside the frame and vent heat through a louvered panel in the side of the body. I have seen several later model 16 passenger vans with raised roofs running both the factory dual evaporator system and an add on overhead unit in the rear to cool acceptably. A casino I go to occasionally has multiple examples of E450s running that setup. It can be 100F outside and it is like stepping into a walk in refrigerator. Those things mostly idle around the casio property.

I have an 8100 from an 01-02 van that had the 2nd compressor and 2nd alternator mounted on it despite the huge engine in the tiny engine bay. It was a limo style party bus and had the overhead rear evaporator and front dash ac on it each running their own compressor and condenser. I have a friend that worked at an outfit that added refer units to the 6.0L gas powered vans a few years ago. They made brackets for the 6.0L to run dual compressor and I would be willing to bet they make them for the diesel as well. Hard for fleet owners to ignore the diesels fuel efficiency.

All of that would be a worst case scenario but there are ways to get enough BTUs of cooling to make it habitable in that van at idle.

[tbirdtbird]

Just for the record, chills go up my spine when I hear that someone has pressure washed any kind of coil, in this case the condenser. You may have done more harm than good. The high pressure can easily bend over the thin-interconnecting webs of the coil, they are very delicate. I would examine this closely. A fin comb is available to try to straighten them if this is the case. Some condensers are built in such a way as to avoid this problem.

[zigblazer]

I ordered parts, compressor, rear expansion valve, dryer, ford orifice tube, and fans. I decided to jump to the end and ordered a pair of the fans for a tahoe. We've only put about 300 miles on it since I did all the maintenance, but the condenser is filled with bugs again.

The van does not have a high roof. It is just a normal 12 person passenger 2500 savana, with the little diesel. We removed the rearmost seat for kennel room, and I will be building custom aluminum kennels. We have three kids that are starting to show dogs at times, so we need to haul up to 5 dogs and 5 people at the same time. Once setup, it will have 3 semi-permanent kennels in the back, the 3rd row seat will stay all the time, and the 2nd row will be able to be removed to add two more kennels when needed.

I believe there is one or more problems going on here. I know my wife will not accept the a/c not working, so I am going to do everything I can to make sure it is works after the first time I fix it. So, Thank you for all of the help. I should have them in sometime next week.

Noticing my tank is getting empty, and it's been a while since I bought it, where/how can I get a new 30lb cylinder of r-134a? It appears to be restricted now and it wasn't when I bought mine. I know I went through some extra training for some certification that allowed me to buy r-12 back when I got my ASE master certification, but that was about 20 years ago now. I never used it or did anything at all with it, nor even remember exactly what it was. I didn't need it to buy the r-134a for my personal use. Is there any chance that certification is still valid? I couldn't even tell you what organization it was through.

[tbirdtbird]

The EPA forbade 30 pounders to be listed on auction sites a year ago, overstepping their authority.
I would try Facebook marketplace

[JohnHere]

Noticing my tank is getting empty, and it's been a while since I bought it, where/how can I get a new 30lb cylinder of r-134a? It appears to be restricted now and it wasn't when I bought mine. I know I went through some extra training for some certification that allowed me to buy r-12 back when I got my ASE master certification, but that was about 20 years ago now. I never used it or did anything at all with it, nor even remember exactly what it was. I didn't need it to buy the r-134a for my personal use. Is there any chance that certification is still valid? I couldn't even tell you what organization it was through.

A bit off topic, but nowadays, one needs to have a US-EPA Section 609 Certificate to purchase refrigerants in bulk. I'm almost certain that whatever certification you got for R-12 way back when is no longer valid.

You already have your ASE Master Certification. Why not add to that by getting your 609 Certification as well? It'll take a bit of studying in preparation for the final exam, but the certificate you'll earn is good for life. MACS runs courses frequently.

Meanwhile, have a look at Royal Refrigerants in Los Angeles. They stock the USA-made Chemours/DuPont product line, including Freon R-134a and Opteon R-1234yf. Be prepared for the prices, though, which have gone sky high since you bought yours.

[Carguychris85]

I had to take mine again a while back merely to be able to have the auto parts stores sell it to the delaership parts department I worked in. It was crazy that we had multiple certified technicians working with it but since it was sold to the parts department someone in the parts department had to be certified too. Was ok by me, the dealership paid for my certification, I got paid to sit on the internet for about 45 minutes, reading through the materials and taking the 10-15 question quiz at the end. Then give them your payment and personal information. They provided a certificate to print out and mail you the real card. Could not have been easier and I think it was $25-30 at the time. It is definitely not a hard or expensive certification to obtain. I would have to look at my card but I think I took it through SNAP online.

I have actually done my certification twice. I lost my 1st card and could not remember who it was through. They wanted $15 to search the database even if the certification could not be found. We were in a time crunch so I just re-took the certification. Once you are certified it is for life if you hold on to that card. They have added R1234YF information so it might not be a bad idea for anyone to re-take it. R1234YF is a different beast being flammable.

[Carguychris85]

One other thing I swear by. ICE32 additive and I have been using it for 20 years now in everything I touch. I personally watched 2oz of the stuff injected into my at the time basically new 2002 Ram with an oil injector while the system was in operation drop the head pressure nearly 25 psi within 5 minutes, low side pressure followed and it was blowing 5F colder at the vents after. I have read of even more noticeable differences just adding the ICE32 additive but I saw a difference first hand. I find it cheaper to buy ACPro PAG oil that already has 1 oz of it blended into the 8oz can. Their larger containers have the same ratio of ICE32 blended in. The claim is ICE32 reduces compressor friction and helps oil flow through the system without collecting as much on the inside of the condenser or evaporator. I especially like using it in dual evaporator systems as it seems to help promote oil return even through the long rubber hoses. My 97 Express vans first compressor failure in 2003 at only 45K miles was due to oil failing to return to the compressor and the HT6 grenading. The rear hose had a ton of PAG oil in them when I flushed them out especially the rear suction hose. Due to the amount of oil in that system I put 3oz of the ICE 32 in it. The replacement compressor, a Valeo HT6 replacement lived over 15 years until I swapped the engine to the current 383 and did a full a/c system rebuild with the engine swap. When I flushed the system for that rebuild there was very little oil in that suction hose and the compressor itself still had something like 4-5 oz that I drained out of it. I did the oil system level check on my Sanden after running it per Sandens instructions on my 87 G20 and found the system to have 2 oz too much oil in the compressor. It does not have the OE lines, OE compressor mounting location or OE compressor type but I did use the OE oil capacity as a starting point since nothing existed as a guideline I errored on too much oil. I see a benifit from the ICE32 additive and will continue to use it myself despite other claiming it is snake oil.

[JohnHere]

I'm on the side that says not to use ICE32.

I prefer Denso ND-8 oil for R-134a systems that call for PAG-46, and ND-12 oil for R-1234yf systems, both oils being double end capped. ND oils have all the additives needed for their respective systems already blended-in from the factory.