What To Look For in an AC Machine?

[JohnHere]

If I were you, I think I'd hold off on buying an RRR machine for R-134a and get myself a pro-quality Manifold Gauge Set for R-1234yf. The latter refrigerant has been phasing-in on vehicles since about 2015, maybe even earlier, and it has been REQUIRED in all vehicles in the USA since 2021. You might find yourself with an "older" car someday that uses R-1234yf. Why not save yourself the cost of a machine, have either refrigerant recovered by your local shop, then proceed with the rest of the job yourself?

[Tim]

If I were you, I think I'd hold off on buying an RRR machine for R-134a and get myself a pro-quality Manifold Gauge Set for R-1234yf. The latter refrigerant has been phasing-in on vehicles since about 2015, maybe even earlier, and it has been REQUIRED in all vehicles in the USA since 2021. You might find yourself with an "older" car someday that uses R-1234yf. Why not save yourself the cost of a machine, have either refrigerant recovered by your local shop, then proceed with the rest of the job yourself?

This one will do the trick.

43-MT1480

[scoostraw]

Good suggestions guys. I appreciate it.

I currently drive two vehicles - a 2003 Honda CR-V and a 2008 Toyota Tacoma. I have no plans to go much newer than that with an ICE vehicle. These vehicles are extremely reliable and easy to work on. I do all my own work, except for tires and alignments.

When the time comes, I will be going electric like everybody else. BTW do Teslas have conventional AC systems? I have thought about this in the past, but never looked into it.

[tbirdtbird]

Bohica, one of the consultants here, will tell you there are no Teslas on the road in the summer daytime in Arizona. Reason being, the electric AC compressor sucks up so much battery, the range is severely truncated.
IMO electric is a feel good choice. It solves nothing. The energy required for a car is shifted to the grid, which can barely handle the load now. We have temps right now in TX at about 102-104 and we have rolling blackouts.
You have to be math impaired to think electric is a good idea.
There is also an abundance of pictures of Teslas towing generators. That should tell you something.
TIM: these links are not for AC parts:
https://www.rv.net/forum/index.cfm/fuse ... 306981.cfm
https://www.yahoo.com/video/guy-install ... zhqrn7MvCk

You get the idea.
You'll be prying my ICE out of my cold dead hands

[JohnHere]

Tesla EVs have conventional A/C systems in that all MVAC systems operate on the same basic principles.

However, the systems that Tesla uses are more complex and more expensive than those used on ICE vehicles. For example, the compressors for the Tesla models—and indeed, all EVs—have integral electric motors that drive them instead of being belt-driven as compressors on ICE vehicles are. In addition, the huge Li-ion batteries that EVs use must be cooled, as well as the cabin, of course. In Tesla models, the A/C system is split so that it will cool both the cabin and the batteries, which means more load on the A/C system and the potential for more costly repairs.

Although Tesla started out using R-134a refrigerant, all Tesla vehicles now use R-1234yf to conform with EPA guidelines published in 2021.

[scoostraw]

Bohica, one of the consultants here, will tell you there are no Teslas on the road in the summer daytime in Arizona. Reason being, the electric AC compressor sucks up so much battery, the range is severely truncated.
IMO electric is a feel good choice. It solves nothing. The energy required for a car is shifted to the grid, which can barely handle the load now. We have temps right now in TX at about 102-104 and we have rolling blackouts.
You have to be math impaired to think electric is a good idea.
There is also an abundance of pictures of Teslas towing generators. That should tell you something.
TIM: these links are not for AC parts:
https://www.rv.net/forum/index.cfm/fuse ... 306981.cfm
https://www.yahoo.com/video/guy-install ... zhqrn7MvCk

You get the idea.
You'll be prying my ICE out of my cold dead hands

Thanks for the reply tbirdbird. It's important to remember that electric vehicles are in their infancy. The grid issue will be resolved. Like it or not, we will all be driving electric vehicles eventually.

[scoostraw]

Tesla EVs have conventional A/C systems in that all MVAC systems operate on the same basic principles.

However, the systems that Tesla uses are more complex and more expensive than those used on ICE vehicles. For example, the compressors for the Tesla models—and indeed, all EVs—have integral electric motors that drive them instead of being belt-driven as compressors on ICE vehicles are. In addition, the huge Li-ion batteries that EVs use must be cooled, as well as the cabin, of course. In Tesla models, the A/C system is split so that it will cool both the cabin and the batteries, which means more load on the A/C system and the potential for more costly repairs.

Although Tesla started out using R-134a refrigerant, all Tesla vehicles now use R-1234yf to conform with EPA guidelines published in 2021.

Ha - so even I will be forced to move to R-1234yf eventually (if I live that long).

Thanks JohnHere.

[bohica2xo]

We will be driving gasoline cars for a very long time.

Pure electrics are ok for a mild costal climate, short trips, etc. Musk is one heck of a salesman, the Tesla will be around tightly packed cities for a long time too. Even with no dealer support, full of nasty lithium batteries. The Nissan Leaf, pure electric is a dealer supported city car with little recognition...

Batteries of any kind are simply a storage medium, not an energy source. We will be burning gasoline - in hybrids. Many of the original Prius hybrids are still on the road. Ever generation of hybrid improves. I drove my first hybrid in 1978 - a hand built series hybrid the owner had driven from Oakland to a car show in Los Angeles. All he had to work with at the time were lead acid deep cycle batteries. His single cylinder diesel engine was borrowed from a small sailboat. He made the trip without stopping for anything but food and a bathroom.

I currently have a Ford Escape Hybrid in the driveway. 2 years old with 19k miles. It replaced a Chevrolet Equinox Hybrid that we drove for 3 years. Both of them AWD, easily getting 40mpg. The successful hybrids all have NiMh batteries. They charge under braking recovering energy. The gasoline engine runs when needed. Drive straight to Yellowstone from Las Vegas. just a couple of gas stops. Great acceleration when you need it too.

Now on to the A/C part. The original Prius A/C was not great. The Prius taxis would vanish from the streets here in July -August. But that has changed. Hybrids run a high voltage electric compressor that has more in common with the compressor in a new refrigerator. Three phase motor, variable speed with an inverter drive.

Both the Ford and the Chevrolet cool well. The Ford Escape pulls down faster when it is 112 outside than the Chevrolet did. The electric compressor runs wide open at a stoplight. In fact it will run at full output with the engine stopped. From the A/C standpoint the hybrid has an advantage. I am not seeing a lot of failed hybrid A/C systems. There is no more clutch or shaft seal. A brushless motor. Pushing the remote start on the Escape makes me giggle. Before the condenser fan even spools up I hear the compressor spin up to about 11,000 rpm.

[Cusser]

Bohica, one of the consultants here, will tell you there are no Teslas on the road in the summer daytime in Arizona. Reason being, the electric AC compressor sucks up so much battery, the range is severely truncated.

1. I'm in Arizona, Phoenix and Prescott areas. I also make that drive once per week (100 miles), and see numerous Teslas on Interstate 17 during the trips; most of them go 15 mph over the speed limit (might be a Tesla requirement, I only go about 8mph over).

2. I know 4 people who own Teslas, two in each area. They each say the AC works great.

3. Go to north Scottsdale area, and you'll see tons of Teslas on the road; definitely a status symbol.

[Tim]

Call me when the hydrogen fuel cell vehicles are in the discussion.

Loved this.
"Batteries of any kind are simply a storage medium, not an energy source".